Nathan Daniel: 0:02
Hey everybody, welcome back to the broker broker real estate podcast today we have a very special episode. For me specifically, I'm really excited about the guests that we have on today because she is very, very near and dear to my heart and I cannot wait to introduce you to her. So welcome to the show. Denise Ackerman. Denise, I am so thrilled to have you on the show today.

Denise Ackerman: 1:01
Well, thanks Nathan. And I am thrilled to be here. It's exciting to be sharing the, the platform this stage with you, after all of us have gone through and experience together. So

Nathan Daniel: 1:18
it is a it's exciting for me. And so if you're if you're tuning in, and you're listening to this, let me give you a little bit of backstory. So Denise, the savvy ageless goddess coach, as she's now known. She was one of my first real estate coaches. And Denise has seen the ups of my business, she's seen the downs of my business, she's seen the good, she's seen the bad. And I thought it was appropriate to not only bring her on and have a real conversation, y'all know, I like to keep it real, but have a real conversation about some of my journey, but also share some of her journey and hear all about what she's doing. So Denise, are you ready to get started?

Denise Ackerman: 2:03
Let's do it. All right.

Nathan Daniel: 2:06
All right. So let's go all the way back, right, all the way back to what was it? 2012, who's 2012. And you had joined an office that I wasn't part of. Right. And we had had some pre conversations, and I was kind of savvy that you were coming in. And I was pretty excited because I was like, hey, awesome. I you know, we've got a great vibe going on. I know I need a coach. And yeah, so I, if I remember right, I think it was your very first client inside the office, which was pretty exciting.

Denise Ackerman: 2:40
It was it was real exciting. It was exciting for me to be in that office. But Nathan, let me give you a little bit of backstory on how I got there. So that Okay, okay, so

Nathan Daniel: 2:53
Yeah, please.

Denise Ackerman: 2:55
Yeah, I think Nathan, I had been a realtor. And in the real estate business since 1984, I almost hesitate to say that because it seems so long ago, just like you young realtor got in the business. So for several years did fairly well, even though that was in the mid 80s. Which, like some of the markets we've been through, it's crazy time. And in that in all those years, about seven years in, I got invited to lead to lead an office. And that that was the bite, if you will, the nudge to lead agents, which is what I really love to do. And so fast forward, it's 2011, I have been leading offices, and I have an opportunity, due to a tough time in my life went through a divorce, to switch into something that I had been wanting to do for a long time. And that was to become a coach. And so I joined Keller Williams in 2011 as a coach because they had coaches in offices. And I actually moved to Austin, which is where they are. They all began and learn from some of the very, very best coaches. But in that year, I became a grandmother or I was going to become a grandmother and I had to get home dialysis home. So that hence you enter I become a coach in that office. And that's where it all began. So it was very exciting. Very exciting. I'm trying to remember they haven't had more of a mentor before that. Is that right?

Nathan Daniel: 4:56
Yeah, there. So there was a there was an agent in the office. Norma Langston if you're hearing, right, she was the, she was a productivity coach mentor, helping a few of us that that needed a little hand holding in the very beginning. So and she was amazing. So she, yeah, she stepped out of that role. And so the there was a whole for a short period of time and you know, opportunity opened itself up. And next thing you know, insert Denise

Denise Ackerman: 5:28
Yep. Yeah. And, yes, when I, I'll never forget, when I realized I was going to move back to the Dallas area. I heard from amber who was the team leader at the time. I mean, immediately, she heard I was coming in. It was just it was a great, great time. Not only did I think you were my first coaching client in that office, and so you were, I remember you being just like an eager beaver, you were ready to make it happen. And yet, there was this side of you that I noticed. That was so techie, that that kept pulling you aside. And you you were quite the dreamer. And still are. But that was what, gosh, eight years ago. And it's it's hard to believe Nathan, all that's transpired since then. Oh, yeah. At that time, now, I remember is, is that you were you were building your business. So what What do you remember about that time?

Nathan Daniel: 6:41
Yeah for me, I remember being at you know, I was I was at another company for a couple years came in, and I just, I knew I needed some guidance, right. To get to the next level, I needed some, some direction, I needed somebody to kind of hold my hand along the way. And through our conversations, and I'll never forget some of our conversations and that I always kind of I don't know what I don't say dreaded them, but I always look forward to that little smile, right? Like that you've got on right now. It's, it's a smile of a what's Nathan gonna bring today? You know, what's it gonna be? Like? It was the truth? Because I knew for me, I mean, for me, it was, I'm definitely a visionary, like, I am a very big visionary. And I see things and how they can work very well. Well, at the same time, that can also be a detriment, you know, to actually production. And so I valued our conversations so much, because I'd go in there, and I'd have a new idea or a new way of doing things. And you have, you had a great way of anchoring me as my coach to bring it back and say, okay, have you done the most important thing yet? And which is, you know, having conversations with people to go get business. Because the majority of my business at that time was very internet driven, like it was blogs, it was, you know, Facebook, it was videos, it was all these things. And so helping me anchor back to that, hey, what activities are you doing?

Denise Ackerman: 8:11
You know, one of the things that's that, that I love to do is a coach, and I love doing it, then I love doing it now. So I'm not I'm not your typical in the past, I was not your typical real estate coach, I am, I was trained to be a productivity coach, which meant to, you know, stick to the numbers stick to the numbers, which I believe the numbers are the best place look. However, when you have someone walk in, like Nathan, Who's shooting rockets of desire, everywhere that you're going, you have to listen to the person. And that's what I love to doing was coaching to that amazing creativity, and then keeping you grounded. So you were making money. And some interesting things happened. Do you remember what happened in that year? With regards to another business that you created? Well, yeah.

Nathan Daniel: 9:08
Yeah. So that's actually when, through through these conversations and coming in, and, you know, the ups, the downs, the highs, the lows, the tears, whatever it like all of that process. That's whenever, actually, Amanda and I had started having conversations around developing Agent in a Box. And so the technology company, you know, getting agents up to speed as quickly as possible, you know, it was 2012 in that same timeframe. And because I knew I love teaching, like I knew I loved because especially doing my business the way it was at the time, you know, a lot of agents would ask me like, how are you doing this? Like what like, what's working for you? How are you getting leads on and doing it this way, so I would share it with them. And at that moment, like I was like, man, there's a hole in our industry, and so With with the help and support of you with the help and support of Amanda, like putting that together, oh, and Mallory, oh my gosh, she's the one that made me sit down and get these systems that were up here in my head out onto paper. But out of that, like, came to fruition agent, the box. And within six months of opening, we were like coast to coast and in real estate offices, which was amazing.

Denise Ackerman: 10:24
Yeah, that's that's the thing about you that became very clear to me was that you are not going to become the speaking of a box, you were not the agent in the box, you weren't the agent on the outside of the box, creating the box, you were creating your own box, and which I find quite fun to coach. Yeah. Because you could see the possibility. And so

Nathan Daniel: 10:59
when I take that I'll add to that like, and I look at my life today. And we'll, we'll continue our story here. Second, I look at like the coaching and the way I coach today. And I go back and reflect on a lot of the conversations that we've had. And that's why I firmly believe that coaching to the entire person is so important, right? If the person so if you're a broker listening to this, like if you can take one thing away from today, I hope it's this like an agent, you have to stop, you have to listen to them. And you have to hear their whole story. Because if you only choose to hear the business side of that story, then you're going to miss out. And so like when I'm coaching with my partners, and my broker partners in agents, whatever the situation may be, like, I keep that in mind, like I've got a coach to the entire person, not just to the business.

Denise Ackerman: 11:50
So I want to add on to that, Nathan, because there was a core group of us that there were four or five of us that I coached night, I started something in that office that I continued, throughout my career as a real estate is only a real estate coach, I still have some realtors, but only as a real estate coach. And that was I wanted to bring them together to mastermind, which is a component that I think is very valuable to agents. And we came together and we start started studying books and one of them was thinking grow rich. And I watched all of you have such a bigger awareness of what you could do. And when I think back on those people that were in the room, to your point about coaching to the entire person, there was someone in there who had been through a huge emotional crisis years before that was she was still carrying around with her. And when I was coaching her, we had to get to that so that she could go on and she is a rockstar agent. Now. I mean, Rockstar, there was someone whose kids were leaving home, they were going off to college, that was really affecting her. And now those kids are amazing, young adults, and her business is flourishing. There was one day I don't know if you remember, this was not the courtroom, we had one agent who was really wanting to be an agent. She was very young. And she was a nanny during the day. Do you remember she would drag the little boy into the office? Yes. And tell them that you're going to the state, we're going to the library. And oh my gosh, it was so much fun to watch her into coach her I could not coach her like I was coaching you. Like I was coaching the ladies who were you know, in a different stage in their life. So you have to look at the person. And by the way, every one of those people I'm talking about went on to create incredible businesses, they're all at the top of their game. So it doesn't matter where you're at. If you have the desire you can do it.

Nathan Daniel: 14:14
Well yeah, and I I'm gonna take a moment and pause and just, you know, inside that office just kind of paint a picture this, this Think Tank, this mastermind that Denise is talking about. It was really cool because we'd have this book club and and inside this office, there's this giant just we call it the fishbowl. Right? Because it's this giant room, this conference room, glass walls on three sides. Yeah. And, and so what we would do is we meet in there once a week and we do this book study and have great conversations. Well of course through that like the conversations from people outside looking in going like Hey, what's going on, like what's going on inside there and there's so much synergy that was built inside that room and it can continue to lead to other things along the way. And I know what led to some retreats that we actually did as well.

Denise Ackerman: 15:07
Mm hmm. Yes. So we did a an end of the year retreat, which I think happened. It was around this time of year it was either right before Christmas or right after Christmas. And we went to one of the ladies like house. So it was very secluded, literally sat on the lake. And we sat outside, I remember it was freezing. But we built a you built a huge bonfire, you are a master bonfire builder. And we sat by the water, and we did some really deep work. And that work launched the next 12 months, which was amazing for you, you went on to do great things, as did the other people that were there. So and by the way, just for the audience's knowledge, you were the only guy there.

Nathan Daniel: 16:00
Yeah, yeah, that that is true. And Mal , like love you to death, like she was totally supportive of that. Well, and I remember like that was that was definitely one of the defining moments, because I remember, I don't know if it's water, I don't know if it was cold, whatever it was, but I remember sitting out on that dock, and I, you can probably go back through my Facebook feed. And there's pictures of this. It's the few of us sitting around this campfire that that. But I remember waking up and going out and actually sitting on that dock and just having some coffee reflecting, journaling. And not only planning out my year, but focusing on myself a little bit. And like that next year is when some pretty big stuff started happening and doors really started opening. And if it wasn't for this moment of planning that I'm not sure I would have been open to moving forward. So thank you for that retreat. It was great. It was great.

Denise Ackerman: 16:59
It was a great retreat. So fast forward. Yes.

Nathan Daniel: 17:04
Yeah, so fast forward a little bit now. I'm stepping into a few offices, I'm teaching technology to higher level and become a team leader in the KW system in 2014. So actually end up relocating from Dallas to Oklahoma City, and what switchwhich, by the way, was part of your goal.

Denise Ackerman: 17:28
So I want to make that really clear that you set that intention, way back in 2012. Not knowing at all how it would happen. So I think that's really amazing that you created the intention, and you made it happen.

Nathan Daniel: 17:43
Yeah, well, we knew I mean, family's important to us, like it's one of our core values, right? And, and for us, I knew that, that being close to not only like family, but my wife's family and everything else like it was it was important to us. And so, you know, my dad lived about an hour and a half away in Dallas, because we were on the total opposite end of the spectrum. So we knew that it was important for our family to make that journey. And so I'm glad that that happened. And that door opened in 2014. So then I stepped into that leadership role for a couple years. And we you know, I don't say we lost touch. But you know, we stayed in contact, and we stayed in communication as I was going through that journey. And then something big happened. Something big happened, and I got a within a part of a training class. A letter came and you know, and it felt familiar with the training I'm talking about this letter showed up on my doorstep. I opened it and the realization hit me right, I stepped into this role for a reason. And I just become burned out, right? I mean, you burn the candle at both ends for too long. Ultimately, there's no more candle to burn. And so of course, who did I call?

Denise Ackerman: 19:05
Yep, yep. And I remember that that conversation. I believe we were doing zoom. We were this. We were zooming before everybody the world started zooming. And we had a zoom conversation. And I had just started my own coaching business at that time. And so you were one of the first that I was talking about what I do now. And being knowing you and being aware of the spark that I had always known about you. I didn't see it. It wasn't there. You remember what I saw? I remember you look

Nathan Daniel: 19:47
oh, yeah, I remember that. Like I was standing there on zoom before zoom was cool. And yeah, I remember you looking at me through zoom like through a little webcam. It just hit so hard. It's like you said, Nathan, like, Where's that fire? Like, I don't see that fire that spark in you anymore. It's like you're like dead inside is what it what it feels like in this conversation. And that was the moment for me I was like, okay, like, I've got to figure this out. And so you had started doing this this journey. And that's when I decided like I need I need my coach back. And so jumping back into it, you took me through this journey over the next what was it? 12 weeks over three months? Three, but maybe maybe four months? Four months?

Denise Ackerman: 20:35
Really? About four months?

Nathan Daniel: 20:36
Yeah. And it was this journey to find my fire. Right. And you asked me three questions. Do you remember what those three questions were?

Denise Ackerman: 20:44
I do. So first, the question is, what would you love? And it's not just a pat answer that anybody can give. It's a deep, profound question. What would you love in your life? What would you love in your family? What would you love in your home? What would you love in your work? What would what would you love to be doing? And that one, you really pause on that? Because you've been on that fast track. And then the next one I asked you was? What if you could? Once you figured out what you would love them, what would what if you could? And then last one is what if it was easy? So Nathan, I'm curious, you took that, you, you really took that to heart, I think you and I coached for about six months, in that time period. And from the point of where you were, to where you took it, and where you are now. What do you think was most impactful for you? How do you think you met finally made that decision?

Nathan Daniel: 21:58
Well, that's a great question along the journey. Every day, I would ask myself those questions. I actually up on my on my board right here. I have those three questions written down, and I stare at them every single day. Because I think what hit home for me on that first question and why it took me so long to really figure that out was like, I didn't know like i was i was frozen. And I was like, I had reached this point in my life that I hit a goal. That was a reality. And I'm like, all of a sudden, I'm thinking about stepping away from this. Like fear sets in and like uncertainty, anxiety, stress, like, all these things started coming up. And I'm like, okay, like, eliminate all this. And let like, help me understand what does it mean to even love, right? love myself love what I do. And I'll never forget I I was keeping up with the content in the course that we were going through. And there was a moment where I was like, You know what, I've got a I've got to go. And my mind was just so full. I literally went and set it and IHOP till it was like 330 in the morning, one day, and just working and contemplating and journaling and taking these exercises. And it just it in that moment. I was like, You know what, I love pouring into people and I loved impacting and I like legacy impact purpose, Authenticity, I'd lost a little bit of myself along the way, in this journey. And I'd lost some of my identity. And I had to find that again. And, and so that was that was the beginning phases of it. Yeah, along the way, as I had, like, it was after that, after that 3am session that I have with that server, I don't know how many pots of coffees that she brought to me. But after that moment, I really started to identify like, okay, here's what I love one, I'm loving myself again. But what if I could and what does that look like and actually opening myself back up to opportunities in and seeing what was going on around me? And if I hadn't been on a journey like this, then it would have I think I would have missed the next big milestone that happened in my life. Am I yeah, so was that was at church one day, right? We have these moments where, you know, we go to church or wherever, you know, wherever you worship, you know, there's these moments where, you know, someone's up in front of, you know, the congregation and they're speaking and all of a sudden everyone's like, oh, wow, like resonated, you know, see people like that great, great message, all that kind of stuff. Well, this one really hit home for me was I was there. I you know, and I think we'd even had conversations like this like, I was a walking zombie. It wasn't bringing it for the position that I was in. I was bringing it out home wasn't bringing it out. at church and I had this moment where I walk in, we're late to church, drop Callen off into Sunday school. And next thing I know, I'm in this amazing worship, that I should be experiencing and feeling, and I'm not. And our pastor was in March, actually, our pastor had started doing this series called the assist. March Madness, right. And he, he had just stopped and said, you know, what, I'm actually calling an assist today. And I'm having a dear friend of mine actually come in and speak today. So he gets up on stage, and he is amazing, like, towel on the back pocket, you know, preacher just brings it and very energetic and just passionate, and about five minutes, and he has this moment where he looks at our pastor and says, I need to stop. And I need to deviate a little bit from the message. And he starts explaining why and he's telling about his gifts and the fruits of the Spirit, everything else and, and he he explains this story, and he starts talking about why works with big speaking conferences, and youth camps and everything else, and he can feel a crowd and he knows when the message needs to be delivered, or a message needs to be delivered. And in that moment, I'm in the back of the church, I'm like, okay, he has everybody stand up, you know, we all kind of, you know, get into our prayer mode. And, well, I'm just going through the motions, and all of a sudden, like, divine, whatever it is, it wasn't just a smack over the forehead type of service. It was a, like club, Nathan to the ground. And he says, you know, you, sir, in the back are going to start a business here, and you're gonna impact the lives of 1000s of people. And I mean, I'm just getting goosebumps thinking about this now, because it was just that moment. And that's what I heard. And I mean, talk about breakdown, and it was a moment in church where I mean, grown man, ugly cry, and it was happening. And the next day is when I walked in and actually had the conversation with my boss. And I was like, You know what, I don't think this is right for me anymore. And I need to step out, and I don't, you know, not only for myself, but for you like this position these agents, everybody here deserves more. And so I removed myself from that position, gave my notice everything else. And then next thing you know, I'm like, Hey, what do I love? I love coaching. I love developing. And a dear friend of mine, Mr. Jake Dixon,

Denise Ackerman: 27:40
through technology, through technology. Yeah.

Nathan Daniel: 27:44
Yeah, through technology. And so anyways, long story there. But but it leads to this, right? I mean, through journey and asking those questions that I still focus on to this day was super important to me. And it was super impactful to this day. So thank you. Thank you for that.

Denise Ackerman: 28:01
You are so welcome. Thank you for sharing that. I remember that phone call. So well. When you told me what happened in church. And as you were talking, Nathan, what I what I think is so important for anybody to consider is that up until that point, our phone conversations were about what I was coaching you on, which is building a life that you love. And what was happening was all the drama in your story. And that's what I think, where I think people get stuck, I don't care if they're a real estate agent, or a computer geek or a mom at home. It's the it's all the drama. And that's where the focus was. And that was where the focus was for you. And it took that searing light bulb moment, the process that we were going through, and then that very moment where you went, wait a minute, it's not about the drama, it's about me. It's always about us. It's about our lives. It's always about us, and we're the ones who are in charge of it. So sorry, I'm getting a little bit on my soapbox, but I I just was hearing that. So well. No,

Nathan Daniel: 29:26
it is. And I think it's you know, for me what I also realized, and he said it's about me because it is you know, ultimately we always I mean naturally we're human right? We think about ourselves. What I realized in that moment is I had a choice to make. And it was about my existence. It was about my like, do I continue to think just about me or am I going to think what is my purpose? And I don't think if I had been on that journey with you at that time, I would have been open to what is my purpose, like what am I being called to at a much higher level. All right, the impact legacy, right, whatever words that you want to use with that, like, what was that, that I was being called to. And at that moment, I knew, I didn't know how I had no idea how it was gonna happen. I knew I just had to, I had to take a moment and step out in faith that it was going to happen and continue this journey that I was on. And so, next thing, you know, we're, well, I'm stepping out. So. So fast forward, let's, let's fast forward again, just a little bit, a little bit more. And, you know, now I'm, I'm in coaching, like I started doing the coaching and everything else. And, and you had also started a journey, right? So you've been going through this journey and identifying for yourself asking you that yourself those same three questions. So tell me now more like savvy angels goddess, what does that mean?

Denise Ackerman: 30:50
So well, that goes, that goes back to where you met me. And a couple of years before that, where I went through that, that transition in my own life, from not only a marriage ending, my kids growing up and changing careers, basically still in real estate, but changing careers. And I was at, I had one of those big momentous birthdays, where I realized that some people as they get older, you know, I don't care whether it's, it's 40/50/60/70, whatever it is, those pivotal birthdays, we go, Oh, my gosh, I'm getting older. And I would see people around me, not just women, but you know, all kinds of people, when they would hit these momentous birthdays, and they would talk about being old. And I declared, that was not gonna be me. And I, I started doing some journaling. And I was working with a coach at the time, who knew I love to write. And she encouraged me to start writing. And I said, Well, I don't have a blog, what am I going to do? And so I started a group came up with the name and the group's name is Savvy Ageless Goddesses. And the whole point of that is to empower women. And actually, since that time, I've thought about changing it to savvy ageless generations. And the extraordinary, there's extraordinary. So it's the word is Sage, my acronym is sage. And because it's more about empowering people, to not look at the condition of their life, not look at the age, not look at the the drama, whatever it is, is empowering you to live a life that you really love living no matter where or how old you are. And but I'm self proclaimed me a savvy, ageless.

Nathan Daniel: 32:57
Yeah, well, and I love that, like, it goes back to everything that we talked about originally, like coaching to the entire person, right. And, you know, my tagline, I think, has been developed from something like this, where it's, you know, be you and be real, like, if the person's never the person is not right. You know, they can't be real with the rest of the world, right? So that they've got to find themselves to share their story. And, and so anyways, I love what you're doing. And I hope if you're a real estate broker, or anybody, any leadership and that, and you're leading people, you're taking some of these notes, and you're taking it to heart, like the three questions and everything else, because that's a, like, you've got to focus on some that sometimes to make sure somebody can move forward and help them move forward. So and I know you're doing some things like not the Facebook group. So tell us a little bit more.

Denise Ackerman: 33:47
So. So what I'm doing now is I'm continuing to take people through the coaching program that you did with me, which is called a dream builder. And I have extended that. What I learned about that, Nathan was that three months and we coach six months. For some people, it's a year some people, it's two years. Four, I really think about you coaching you for more like two or three years, because I coached you intermittently through that. And it's it's understanding that there is no quick fix. There's no quick fix, whether you're a broker, coaching your agents and throwing at them a training and thinking that they're going to go out there and do it themselves, or if it's about making a life change. And so what I love to do is I love to help people take their gifts, just like I did with you, and integrate those gifts into a dream into a vision for their lives, so that they are living the life they love. And that's what I do. That's what I do. And then the piece that I've added is the intentional piece, because I know from all the studies I've done, including thinking Grow Rich, and many, many others the power of intention, there's so many of them that you have to have, you can create a dream. But if you don't have an intention for what you're going to do with that, then it can fall flat. So that's what I'm doing with my coaching right now. My my primarily my clients are real estate agents, who are wanting more than just how to sell a house, they really need the life piece. So I coach agents on that. And then I coach, anyone primarily, it seems to be right now it's primarily men, I mean, women, but I've coached men through this too. It's that any kind of transition, where they're, they're facing something in their life, and it can be where they don't even know what they're doing. They just, they just have reached that stuck point. But it's a transition in helping them recalibrate their lives.

Nathan Daniel: 36:07
Yeah. Yeah. And you do such a good job with that. And, and so if somebody wanted to find out more about coaching with you, I'm definitely gonna put all this in the show notes and everything as well. But like, where do they go to find out more,

Denise Ackerman: 36:21
so they can go to my website, which is DeniseAckerman.com. Real simple. And, and that's Denise with an S, and Ackerman, and, or they can find me on Facebook or LinkedIn. I also have and I'll give it to you, Nathan to put in the show notes. I am very much about offering just what I call a discover your life session. And I've got a link for that, that I'll give you for the show notes that they can book a 30 minute session with me and let me see how I can help them find what it is that they would love. So yeah, okay.

Nathan Daniel: 37:12
Well, that is that's awesome. And I will like I said, I'll make sure everything your contact information and stuff is in the show notes everybody can reach out to, I highly encourage you if you're in a moment of transition. Whether or if it's you, if it's an agent, if you know somebody in your world, and they're going through something like that. You know, Denise is an amazing coach and fully has my endorsement. So Denise, Denise, thank you, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really appreciate it. Not only for being on the show, but for everything that you've done for me and helping one be a great friend, a great coach, a great mentor. And yeah, just just being there for me and having an ear. So well.

Denise Ackerman: 37:55
You are so welcome. And I'm I want to give you some accolades. That if if any agent that's looking or broker that's looking to create something bigger. Nathan is your guy, because Nathan has taken from from the very beginning of being an agent and done some amazing things continues to so you want a coach with vision and that's what you've got.

Nathan Daniel: 38:22
Well, thank you so much for that Denise. I appreciate it. So, everybody, we have been talking to Denise Ackerman, the savvy ageless goddess coach, transformation, coach, life coach, whatever you want to call it. And thank you again, Denise for being on the show.

Denise Ackerman: 38:37
You are welcome. Thanks, Nathan.